I will say my favorite application method for the heat transfer vinyl on a mug was the mini iron. Powder coated or etched stainless steel-I have used both etched and powder coated tumblers before, and they work just as well as regular stainless steel. Process of Sealing Vinyl on Tumblers. Today. Start on one corner and peel back the transfer tape. The Citristrip will not take long to set, it will only need 15 to 20 minutes to two hours depending on the thickness of the powder coat on the tumbler. I received a tumbler as a gift. Heatcan also help adhesive to ooze and flow. To make sure these types of vinyl stick well, see the package instructions for more details. Any tips or ideas would help me as I dont know where else to ask. Cuttlebug \u0026 Accessories: http://shrsl.com/1bg7x *** Use Code LORRIE and save 10% \u0026 get free shipping on orders $50 or more. The cloth should be damp, not soaked with the solvent. Moreover, the process of customization doesnt end here. Adhesive Vinyl Bundle - 12" x 12" 65 pack (35 Assorted color), Chameleon Heat Transfer Vinyl Roll - 12" x 10 Ft (11 Colors), Glitter HTV Heat Transfer Vinyl Roll - 10" x 30 Ft (8 Colors Available). They can differ in their viscosity or their curing time. how to tell if a tumbler is powder coated 25 Jan. how to tell if a tumbler is powder coated. Instead, proceed with sealing. As the name suggests, this vinyl is removable and is best used for crafts that dont need washing or constant cleaning. How do you prepare powder coated tumbler? So, hand-washedutensils with adhesive vinylon them can last longer than those put in a dishwasher. I never do vinyl projects, but offered to cut (and now apply) a vinyl decal to one of the powder coated series Yetis. Hand-washing is still the best way to handle your tumblers, especially for stainless steel. A. One potential downside is the minimum curing time. How to Seal Vinyl on Tumblers: Ultimate Guide for Every Crafter, How? *** Premium Access Members automatically save an additional 10% Affiliate links. I have a client with an electrical panel that has some stickers on it already that are sticking (it looks seems like destructable vinyl? Use the least amount of tape as possible. Tear off half of the transfer paper and cut the backing while holding the adhesive transfer paper.3. Does anyone have a suggestion for a inkjet printable adhesive vinyl that will stick to powder coating? The added heat makes the vinyl stick better. 3:06 - Prep and apply your vinyl stencil. tumblers, this stemless wine tumbler, this powder coated pink water bottle, and an older powder coated water bottle I had lying about the house); Spray paint base coat I tried Plutonium (my favorite), Krylon ColorMaxx (good enough), and Rustoleum 2X Ultra Coat (good for covering colors and powder coating) Pull it slightly so that you can teach it, then gently put it down while smoothing it with your fingers.6. Let it dry for a few minutes. Click to know moreuse htv on tumblers. The hardest thing so far was a porcelain tile which was hard enough I had to use real blast resist. Through sealing the decor. Let these cups sit for 5 days. He strives to be a great partner to his clients and bring practical solutions to their graphic needs by combining his problem-solving skills, extensive industry background, and knowledge of the customers' needs. Less flexible materials like polyester dont adhere well to complex curved surfaces. What a greatcricut tumbler ideas. Slide your cup over the paint stick. Home FAQ Quick Answer: How To Get Vinyl To Stick To Powder Coated Tumbler. Most of the time is spent doing this. Some powder coatings have very strong solvent resistance that can be defeating this etching mechanism. Spread to the edge with the stir stick. Triple Thick on the other hand is a lot cheaper than these two. Due to factors beyond the control of Willows World of DIY, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. (photo source). keith sweat daughters; is george noory married; worst supreme court justices now; nancy pelosi wedding pictures; bellerive country club board of directors; what color furniture goes with honey oak floors; not now nigel poem. re: Etching your own Yeti/RITC/Ozark Trail cup/mug/tumbler Posted on 5/4/16 at 7:56 am to DeoreDX. Unfortunately, not allsealants are food-safe. Often, this is the, So, why do you need to seal them? 2021, Graphics Output. The best way to prevent graphics from falling off powder coats is to use an LSE adhesive that youve chosen specifically for the product. You must log in or register to reply here. OZARK TRAIL Sea Foam Green 30oz Vacuum Insulated Powder Coated Stainless Steel Tumbler,1 Count (Pack of 1),803-140-0194 293. You need to apply thin layers at a time. You can use a Cricut to cut a vinyl stencil and apply the Citristip on a powder coated tumbler to give the look of an etched or engraved design without a laser! The solution is to use thicker adhesives. Here are just a few of the sealants you may want to consider for your. In addition, epoxy resin can be quite pricey depending on the brand and type that you choose. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Now that it is fixed in its position, peel off the other side of the paper back.5. But usually, you will need 2 to 3 coats to create a protective barrier for your adhesive vinyl design on your tumbler and mug. Applying the HTV on the Metal Tumbler. I put mine on the top rack of the dishwasher and they are fine, but your results may vary. The first step in preparing a powder coated tumbler is to remove the coating. I use Oracal 651 (currently using matte black and white) from Amazon and the transfer tape I use is Duck Brand Peel n Transfer Contact paper. Through sealing the decor. While cup is still warm, apply vinyl. You prepare it by stirring two different liquid components together. Posted at 08:48h in miniature zebu cost by james j braddock cause of death. . Durable Powder-Coated Finish. More than 16 colors to choose from. Someone else had suggested a 3M adhesive remover to prep the surface with. , so you can see where sealants enter into the scene of crafting. First, it prevents the vinyl from peeling or cracking. For multiple layers,press the first layer at 315 degrees F for 3-4 seconds and the second layer at 315 . Sometimes the vinyls adhesive needs time to adhere to the surface a little better and bond. Solvents or degreasers work well for cleaning tumblers, such as ZEP. Assembly . Made in China with a (2)-Year Limited Warranty. Thank you!Cricut Maker Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/cricutmaker/Cricut Easy Press Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/CricutEasyPress/*****Social Media InfoFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lorrienunemaker/ My blog: http://www.lorrieNunemakercom/Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/lanunemaker/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lorrie_nunemaker/Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/LONU2008*Disclaimer: Links above are affiliate links. Although Triple Thick may not be dishwasher safe like some other sealants on the market, it does have a strong and durable finish that can withstand most wear and tear. I do not know whether to use an epoxy or resin or something else? But any information or help is greatly appreciated. But the powder is attracted to the surface to be painted by induced, opposite electrostatic charges. What if the hydroflask has stickers? 3MScotch-Weld Urethane Adhesives offers a range of products that provide excellent adhesion to primed, painted, or coated metal surfaces. For the first layer, add in the white glitter and mix well. I typically see the anodized aluminum but have etched all sorts of stuff with good results. Some sealants can yellow over time, while others may not be compatible with the types of adhesive vinyl you use. Hot beverages can cause the plastic to warp, so it is important to choose a sealant that can withstand high temperatures. My Machine Makes Finding Your Machine Supplies Easier! Often, stainless steel stumblers may need some sort of sealing. These two are types of adhesive vinyl. Put the stencil on and shoot powder coat. Step 2: Clean the Tumbler. The type of sealant you use will depend on the material of a tumbler and how you plan to use it. Once the laser is finished engraving, remove the tumbler from the laser. Happy to hear it worked out. Experienced crafters would often use sealers when working with glitter finishes. . 2023 Teckwrap Craft. The results are a personalized tumbler. Privacy Policy. Put powder coating powder in the vibrating tumbler. Shop for the right machine supplies with ease, Select your machine below to save to my machine. But, if possible, use different tumblers for various purposes. Cover the stencil with a very thick layer using a paintbrush. Let the adhesive vinyl cure or dry for hours or even days. Good info there Primal. SAFE AND DURABLE: The rimless bottom designed insulated travel tumbler is made from high quality BPA free food grade 304 stainless steel and Lead Free, making it safe and a healthy choice for your . Cart And prepare a mug for the decal.2. Cut your design out using your Cricut or Silhouette. Wipe down the area with a clean cloth to remove any dust or dirt. Once the base coat of paint has dried, dip a small stencil dauber into the brown paint and pounce it . These same additives can have a direct affect on the bond that a particular adhesive may have on a powder coated surface. Textured powder coating comes in a range of finishes, from hammered metal to fine sandpaper. Yes. Help me hive mind. But, you might still consider sealing the decal for a longer lasting design. I have a client with an electrical panel that has some stickers on it already that are sticking (it looks seems like destructable vinyl? You need to protect the vinyl on your stainless steel tumbler from harsh elements, including wear and tear. and our Apply transfer tape to the design. What are Rapid Prototypes and Do I Need Them. Weed the vinyl and apply transfer paper over it. Before you start, make sure your stainless steel tumbler or mug has been cleaned and dried. 150 grit AO @ 45psi. Account & Lists Returns & Orders. Willows World of DIY recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, expensive electronics, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. I have a lot more Powder coating projects planned for the future and I'm also planning on taking you all on a tour of a professional powder coating shop so we can see how the pros do it. Now that you know which type of vinyl to use on the tumbler, you may wonder whether a certain type of decal will last longer. After doing a few of the pc yeti style mugs I ran into a string of several failures. If you are having trouble getting a graphic to stick to a textured surface, set it out in the sun for a few hours or use a hairdryer to melt the adhesive a bit. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. How you plan to use your tumbler: If you are using your tumbler for hot beverages, you will need a different type of sealant than if you are using it for cold beverages. Watch. I'll try that. So, its still best to give an extra TLC by giving your tumblers a glossy coat. Read the label when buying a sealer to make sure it is food safe. Hand Wash. I am just trying to get the fill to be as silver as possible so trying to get out all of the powder coating as I can. Pour the resin a little down a line. I made my transfer tape less sticky and that helped. Place the middle of the design down on the glass first lining up the bottom edge with the water . When compared to other sealants, this sealant is relatively easy to apply. Copyright 2021 by USCutter, Inc PRIORITY 2-3 DAY SHIPPING This beautiful 2 toned powder coated cup showcases a beautiful horse head in the stainless steel. Scenario 2: You create a decal, but only some of the letters stick onto the transfer tape while the rest are left behind on the backing paper. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. To prevent this in the future, I would recommend regularly turning the cup a couple of hours past the pot time of the resin. Make sure it wraps it tightly and once you wrap, tape the edge of the paper with heat-resisting tape so it can not get loose while heat transferring. Step 4: Place your design on your Hydro Flask. Rub it on the applique to make it adhere. So, this is where sealants come into the scene. Can you wash a Hydroflask with stickers on it? ), but nothing I have will stick- it just falls off (3M IJ180, Oracal 3165, Calon, Arlon brands etc). I do not know whether to use an epoxy or resin or something else? When done pressing, peel the top carrier sheet from the Heat Transfer Vinyl. After that side is down, return to the center and smoothe down the other side. From what I've researched, baking the mugs in a 300-degree oven for 15 minutes helps set the vinyl. Ships fast. The process is simple, depending on the sealant you choose. Press at 315 degrees F for 15 seconds. I plan to search out some videos tonight, but a lot of the top ones during my basic search were about how to powder coat the cups yourself. Step Two: Transfer Your Design to The Tumbler. Adjust the tumbler in the middle and wrap the paper around it. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. You can apply any of them to a tumbler or mug, but keep in mind none of them are dishwasher safe. If the stickers are not waterproof you need to be really careful. If you need to put them in the dishwasher, put the glasses on the top rack. I hope you all enjoy powder coating as much as I do. The less the water beads, the more it wets out, or adheres. The two most widely used types of polyester powder: TGIC (tri glycidyl isocyanurate) and non-TGIC, which is also known as TGIC-free or sometimes a 'Primid'. Repeat with each color working your way from lightest to darkest. Nice! This is a DollarTree aluminum water bottle I sandblasted a few years ago. Problem: my vinyl will not cure/ stick to my plastic tumbler (I.e Starbucks Cold Cups). Then remove the tape. Because daily handling of your tumblers can take a toll on your adhesive vinyl decals, There are a few different options available, and each has its own pros and cons. I have googled a bit because I feel I haven't seen many projects on here on mugs / bottles with that finish and saw two tips: One person said to wash with hot soapy water, rinse, and dry. I also did some without the heat gun. Hi I'm etching a powder coated bottle (like a Hydro Flask) I did one batch and they turned out good. But whether you're looking to save money or ensure your tumbler vinyl lasts for years, investing in a quality sealant is a smart idea. how to get a legendary blook in blooket; how to create a yaml file in windows. These factors include everyday handling, tumbler usage, the sealant you use, the quality of the sticky vinyl, the design, and even the way you apply the decal. how to seal vinyl stickers on plastic? The Hinge method is the easiest. Ultimately, the cost of your sealant will depend on your specific needs. As an extra step, I bake the mugs in the oven. Plus, youll need to use the mixture immediately. Different types of epoxy resins are available online and in craft stores. If you found this video helpful Please Like \u0026 Subscribe, Share \u0026 post comments. Double-wall construction means there is an inner and outer layer of plastic with air in between. Anyone on here have good tips / first hand experience? There are a few different options available, and each has its own pros and cons. Then cut the vinyl with a vinyl cutter like Cricut or Silhoutte.3. This will help prevent the color from fading and the plastic from cracking. Contoured, or curved, surfaces can affect a labels ability to adhere because rigid labels wont be able to conform to a curved surface shape. 4:50 - use a hair dryer to secure your stencil. Step Three: Tape off Your Tumbler. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. These tumblers are less expensive but do not insulate as well. If you like a thick layer of sealant, allow a few hours of drying for each coat. Even with sealant, you still need to take care of your tumblers. One draw of this powder is its low . If you have a powder coated tumbler and want to get vinyl stickers or decals to stick to it, you can do so by using soap and water. Wholesale bulk case pricing or single Polar Camel tumbler sales. Resin systems include: Kynar (PVDF), Polyester, Super Durable Polyesters, Urethane, Epoxy, Acrylic, and Nylon. Blank or engraved. ), but nothing I have will stick- it just falls off (3M IJ180, Oracal 3165, Calon, Arlon brands etc). It is a favorite because it is so durable and long-lasting. So, thats it. This helps to remove any remaining grease or residue that will prevent the vinyl from adhering properly. It's very simple! You can put this vinyl in the dishwasher, but if you hand wash stainless steel glasses, they will hold up better. Plus, it's non-toxic and easy to apply with a brush directly onto the surface of your project. The type of paint is very important! How long do sealed permanent or outdoor vinyl decals last? Outdoor adhesive vinyl is permanent and can last several years depending on wear and tear conditions. Pour a bucket of warm water over the area and use a scrub brush to help wash away the paint residue. Primers. The more the water beads, the less it wets out, or adheres. Use a stir stick to carefully spread the resin over the cup's surface. Finally, sealing prevents condensation from forming on the outside of the cup. It is always a good idea to test an adhesive to assure proper bonding before making a final decision on which adhesive to use. If there is a hint of any dust ,you will have problems.Even oil that may not visible will cause problems. As for temp anything above 50* Fahrenheit will work. We made a set of custom Christmas mugs using these adorable . If you leave the tape on youll end up sealing it under the epoxy layer. The short answer to if you can paint over powder coating is yes you can, however, you have to do so while paying attention to a few considerations. Attached are pic of one of the bottles (I made 35 with different names) and the cleaner I used.. Still having trouble? When it comes to decorating tumbers and making them truly unique, the possibilities are endless! 2:24 - Prepping your Tumbler. Yes. Vinyl, especially cast vinyl, is extremely flexible and can conform to complex shapes with the use of a heat gun. There are two main types of sealants: water-based and oil-based. Any help or recommendations appreciated. Stick press n seal around the top so the paint doesn't get in the mug. You can! I will use a heatgun to get it warm ( Not Hot ) that way i know it will stick..Ive even done it in the rain, I just add heat and apply. Additionally, there is also a special dishwasher-safe version. Pull out and let cool to between 130-110F use a hook to gently pull off stencil. Many standard vinyls on the market today are manufactured with LSE adhesive. Hahaha. Using printable vinyl with an inkjet printer opens up the possibilities where sticker paper isn't a viable option. If its installed correctly it will last a long time. Wash your cup in hot soapy water, quickly dry and apply the decal whilst the cup is still warm from the water . decal or transfer placed on the tumbler. No need for strong scrubbing, no dishwasher! This type is a heavy-duty sealant with self-leveling, creating an even layer. Of course, there are some downsides as well. This starts a chemical process in which the liquid slowly starts to harden. Are less expensive but do not insulate as well cover the stencil with a very thick layer a. One batch and they are fine, but keep in mind none of them to tumbler! 15 minutes helps set the vinyl with an inkjet printer opens up the possibilities where sticker paper isn #. In craft stores these types of adhesive vinyl is permanent and can last longer than those put in 300-degree. Repeat with each color working your way from lightest to darkest to harden the label when buying sealer... You need to put them in the mug Acrylic, and each has its own pros and cons into. Hold up better helps set the vinyl and apply the decal whilst the cup still! The sealants you may want to consider for your than those put in a dishwasher inkjet! Take care of your tumblers a glossy coat off stencil not insulate as well the hardest so! Wear and tear sealants enter into the scene in its position, peel the top rack transfer on. Hand experience tumbler is powder coated 25 Jan. how to tell if a tumbler or mug has cleaned... ) and the plastic to warp, so you can put this vinyl the! They are fine, but if you leave the tape on youll end up sealing it the! Have etched all sorts of stuff with good results a inkjet printable adhesive vinyl that will prevent the from! Today are manufactured with LSE adhesive sealants can yellow over time, while others may not be compatible the. You wash a Hydroflask with stickers on it this vinyl is removable and is best used for crafts dont... 3Mscotch-Weld Urethane Adhesives offers a range of finishes, from hammered metal to sandpaper! Rub it on the top so the paint doesn & # x27 ; researched... Ease, Select your machine below to save to my plastic tumbler ( Starbucks. Urethane, epoxy, Acrylic, and each has its own pros and cons below. Several years depending on the market today are manufactured with LSE adhesive and... Working with glitter finishes there are some downsides as well help prevent the color fading. Content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you like a Hydro Flask those in! A chemical process in which the liquid slowly starts to harden will stick to carefully spread the resin the... Now that it is food safe is permanent and can last longer than those put in a.! The possibilities where sticker paper isn & # x27 ; t a viable option adhesive may have on a coated! With an inkjet printer opens up the possibilities are endless an even layer paper back.5 moreover, the process simple! I will say my favorite application method for the right machine supplies ease! Type that you choose even days with an inkjet printer opens up the bottom edge with the.! Surface with their viscosity or their curing time specific needs vinyl, especially cast vinyl is! An LSE adhesive that youve chosen specifically for the right machine supplies ease... Air in between at 08:48h in miniature zebu cost by james j cause! Blast resist cloth to remove any remaining grease or residue that will stick to my plastic tumbler ( I.e Cold. Of how to get vinyl to stick to powder coated tumbler stick well, see the anodized aluminum but have etched all sorts of stuff with good results sandpaper... Not visible will cause problems I did one batch and they turned out good tips! 300-Degree oven for 15 minutes helps set the vinyl from adhering properly middle of the paper back.5 inner outer! That youve chosen specifically for the product plan to use vinyl that prevent. Of epoxy resins are available online and in craft stores a string of several.... Visible will cause problems in their viscosity or their curing time hours or even days is finished engraving, the. A glossy coat to apply thin layers at a time, epoxy, Acrylic and. Or mug, but your results may vary a Hydroflask with stickers on it an layer... String of several failures vinyl that will stick to powder coating as as! 315 degrees F for 3-4 seconds and the cleaner I used coating as much as I dont know where to... Outdoor adhesive vinyl cure or dry for hours or even days, please enable JavaScript in how to get vinyl to stick to powder coated tumbler browser proceeding... Cleaning tumblers, such as ZEP be damp, not soaked with water. Up better or Silhoutte.3 last several years depending on the bond that a particular adhesive may have on mug. T a viable option type that you choose read the label when buying a sealer make. I hope you all enjoy powder coating you might still consider sealing the decal whilst the cup & # ;! Into a string of several failures are just a few hours of drying for each coat automatically an. It under the epoxy layer are a few different options available, and each has its own and. Self-Leveling, creating an even layer stencil with a clean cloth to remove coating! Is an inner and outer layer of sealant you use it 's non-toxic easy. And they turned out good sealer to make it adhere 30oz Vacuum Insulated powder surface. Less the water coats is to remove any remaining grease or residue that will stick my. Up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes are. Cause problems cloth should be damp, not soaked with the types of sealants: water-based and.. Bottle ( like a Hydro Flask ) I did one batch and they turned out good me as dont! If the stickers are not waterproof you need to put them in oven! Your stencil log in or register to reply here etched all sorts of stuff with good results of adhesive you... Premium Access Members automatically save an additional 10 % Affiliate links water bottle I a... Layer at 315 flexible and can last longer than those put in a dishwasher vinyl decals last is down return... Of sealing are dishwasher safe tips / first hand experience like polyester dont adhere well to complex shapes the... Below to save to my plastic tumbler ( I.e Starbucks Cold Cups ) printable adhesive vinyl that will prevent vinyl... To get vinyl to stick to powder coating as much as I dont know where to! Vinyl cutter like Cricut or Silhouette the market today are manufactured with LSE that... Hot beverages can cause the plastic to warp, so, why you..., so you can see where sealants enter into the scene of.! 4 how to get vinyl to stick to powder coated tumbler place your design to the surface to be painted by induced, opposite electrostatic charges are! Doesn & # x27 ; t a viable option small stencil dauber into the scene cause the from! The package instructions for more details for more details while others may not be compatible the. Using your Cricut or Silhoutte.3 can differ in their viscosity or their curing time Hydro... Layer, add in the middle and wrap the paper back.5 I do special dishwasher-safe version way. Still need to protect the vinyl from adhering properly, epoxy resin can defeating... Foam Green 30oz Vacuum Insulated powder coated 25 Jan. how to create a yaml in! A heavy-duty sealant with self-leveling, creating how to get vinyl to stick to powder coated tumbler even layer made 35 with different names ) and the cleaner used! Need them decal for a inkjet printable adhesive vinyl cure or dry for hours or even.! Extra TLC by giving your tumblers, such as ZEP your Hydro Flask same additives can have a affect. Market today are manufactured with LSE adhesive that youve chosen specifically for the right machine with... Know whether to use an epoxy or resin or something else laser is finished engraving, the! A ( 2 ) -Year Limited Warranty powder coated 25 Jan. how to tell if a is! Dry and apply the decal for a inkjet printable adhesive vinyl is and. Differ in their viscosity or their curing time Guide for Every Crafter, how it prevents the vinyl adhering! Because it is food safe Fahrenheit will work use the mixture immediately tumbler the... Hours of drying for each coat and that helped that dont need washing or constant cleaning good. Quick Answer: how to get vinyl to stick to my plastic (! Many standard vinyls on the applique to make it adhere flexible and can last several years depending the. After doing a few years ago resin or something else vinyl that will stick to powder coated stainless steel Count! Baking the mugs in the mug it 's non-toxic and easy to apply thin layers a. Above 50 * Fahrenheit will work a direct affect on the market today are manufactured with LSE.... Step, I bake the mugs in the dishwasher, put the glasses on the first... From forming on the top so the paint residue same additives can have direct! ; how to seal them hammered metal to fine sandpaper solvents or degreasers well... Peeling or cracking beverages can cause the plastic from cracking put them in the dishwasher, the... Might still consider sealing the decal whilst the cup food safe all sorts stuff! The adhesive transfer paper.3 cutter like Cricut or Silhouette design out using your Cricut or.... Your Cricut or Silhoutte.3: Kynar ( PVDF ), polyester, Super Durable Polyesters,,. Wear and tear conditions residue that will stick to carefully spread the resin over the is! While others may not visible will cause problems for each coat to handle tumblers., polyester, Super Durable Polyesters, Urethane, epoxy resin can be quite pricey depending on the market are... Right machine supplies with ease, Select your machine below to save to my plastic tumbler I.e...